Crossing the line - On riding motorcycles and general stupidity.

"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
10/20/2015 at 11:38 • Filed to: None

There’s a lot of angst going on over at Lanesplitter. If you haven’t heard, let me summarize: A guy out for a ride with his girlfriend on the back when he came upon some traffic going slow. So, he decided to pass a couple of cars in a no-passing zone. The lead car crossed the double-yellow line, punting the motorcycle and its riders into the ditch.

The rider and his passenger went to the hospital. The rider was cited for passing in a no passing zone. The driver has been arrested for assault.

The angst is about responsibility and justification. I won’t go into all the arguments, but !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! did catch my eye:

“That’s something that I have yet to see addressed, as from the motorcyclist’s vantage point, with the SUV between him and the smaller car that ended up hitting him, he really had no idea why the traffic in front of him was slowing down, yet he opted to pass multiple vehicles anyway.”

As someone who was once young, stupid, and guilty of making the same mistake, I thought I would share my story:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Seeing that there are nearly 4,000 comments and mine would likely get lost in the fray, I thought I would bring it over to Oppo where someone might read it and learn something from my mistake.

DISCUSSION (32)

Party-vi > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:43

Those crash statistics are worrisome, considering my dad (54) rides a cruiser and supersport. Hopefully he’s dumped both bikes enough to ride with a cool head.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:45

Thanks for sharing that.

I used to ride a sport bike (hoping to again, soon, but financial stuff) and I always tried to be patient, especially on 2 lane roads for the very reason you described.

Now out on the highway, in rush hour traffic, I took my liberties sometimes, and even had a guy try to pin me to a jersey barrier once with the front of his car because of it.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:48

Well written story, with great insight. This is a fantastic usage of the “self-share” to OPPO.

Though looking at your stats, if I start riding motorcycles next year (when I turn 30) with zero experience as long as I get a Touring bike, I should be pretty damn safe just from statistics!

bob and john > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:48

holy poop 4k comments?!

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:52

Sad to say, your bike story is sort of me in a car. Not the exact situation, but the general flow.

Person pisses me off.

Person pisses me off more.

Person pisses me off even more, I do something mildly stupid.

Ppmoem, do something stupider.

Ppmoem, do something really, really stupid.

Scare myself shitless and realize I’m going to kill myself and others. Become really meek for a while.

Spread over 2-4 weeks. Lather, rinse, repeat.

*hangs head*

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:54

My counterpoint is that the visibility was pretty good, conditions were pretty safe, and that driver pre-emptively started swerving into them to block or cut them off. I don’t think that bike was a spine crushing sport bike. I have excellent visibility *over* most cars on my UJM style bike. I don’t agree with the pass in the no-pass zone on principal as well as the double pass. But that aside, that appears to be the only major wrong the motorcyclist committed.

BigBlock440 > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:55

I’m not really sure that’s a good point. There was only one car in between them, he could see it, could see if there was a signal or a turn, etc. If it was a long line of cars, sure, but 2 cars isn’t a long line that you can’t see what the lead car is doing. Even if you’re the vehicle right behind them, you still don’t really know why they’re slowing (if they’re even slowing, I though they were holding a steady speed that was below the limit).

Sam > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:57

I think the craziest part is that people think bikers are justified in doing pretty much whatever they want “because cars are spooky”.

I also want to point out to people that willingly endangering his passenger makes him as much of a psychopath as the guy that hit him. Intentionally putting another person in a situation where they could die, but have no control, is pretty much the same as trying to kill them.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Party-vi
10/20/2015 at 11:58

I think most of the older riders crashing are due to inexperience. The stats page I linked to says that 24% of the fatalities were unlicensed. It doesn’t make clear the age of those riders.

Many riders think that having a driver’s license is the same thing as having a motorcycle license. I know my own father-in-law thought about getting a cruiser until I pointed out he would have to get a license first. Well, my mother-in-law got wind of it about the same time....

If your dad is licensed, experienced, and has been through an MSF rider course, I wouldn’t worry about him too much.

Urambo Tauro > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 11:59

Part of what made the video go viral is that everyone can relate to it.

We’ve all gotten stuck behind someone who is driving slowly. We want to pass them so badly, but sometimes there is oncoming traffic or a no-passing zone that prevents us from escaping. So our road rage boils even hotter as we wait for an opportunity.

We’ve also all encountered drivers who break laws and get away with it. Without any cops around to take care of things, we are tempted to be vigilantes, for fear of the other driver not learning their lesson. Sometimes it’s jealousy: we may actually want to perform the same maneuver, but we’re more mature than that, and are envious of the advantage that the lesser driver just took for himself.

Either way, once that road rage starts, it’s hard to stop. And the adrenaline can screw with your driving in both subtle and unsubtle ways. But that adrenaline doesn’t absolve you of your actions. You are still fully responsible for your own driving, no matter how mad you are.

450X_FTW > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 12:08

This is why I like Europe licenses. You have to take a motorcycle test depending on what cc and power the bike is to prove you can handle it

BigBlock440 > Sam
10/20/2015 at 12:20

So, letting the passenger get on the bike then? Or in the seat next to them? Or on an airplane, or bus?

TheRealBicycleBuck > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/20/2015 at 12:22

Here’s where I had my bout of stupidity:

Kinja'd!!!

It’s a wide, flat road with long sight lines. The entire length of the road is marked for passing.

There were at least 10 cars in the line I passed. I thought the holdup was a big truck near the front of the line. What I couldn’t see were the two vehicles in front of the truck - a silver sedan and the mail truck.

The mail truck’s left amber was flashing, but most mailmen keep their hazards on when they are stopping to deliver mail. I deduced the line was caused by someone not wanting to pass the mailman who kept stopping to deliver mail, so I kept on the throttle.

I was wrong. The mail truck turned left.

TheRealBicycleBuck > 450X_FTW
10/20/2015 at 12:26

Although our licenses don’t limit you on size or power, you do have to pass a driving test to prove you can handle a motorcycle. That doesn’t mean you won’t do something stupid with it after the test.

In case you are wondering, I passed my test and was licensed at the time this happened.

crowmolly > BigBlock440
10/20/2015 at 12:26

nvm

Sam > BigBlock440
10/20/2015 at 12:29

When the passengers in my car get in, it’s sort of an unspoken agreement that I won’t intentionally do anything that will get them killed. For example, I wont run stop lights or blast down the freeway at 120mph.

Master Cylinder > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 12:40

I have been riding motorcycles for over a decade and I don’t think I’ve ever crossed a DY to pass. I don’t have any problem with it, and I think the non-motorcyclists who get huffy about it are usually just looking for something to be offended about. It’s a non-issue if the rider isn’t a moron and the driver isn’t some road raging hothead.

But, that said, the reason I don’t make DY passes is because of shit like this - people driving their cars all closed up and thinking that they’re the little dictators of the road will do INSANE things that they would never consider and/or have the guts to do otherwise. Like trying to murder someone because they’re going around you. And that’s not a cars vs. motorcycles thing, this guy might have rammed someone in a car trying to get around his slow ass, too. It just would’ve hurt a lot less for a driver vs. a rider.

There’s really no rational reason for a motorcyclist not to cross on a DY if there is visibility and space. The average motorcycle can accelerate MUCH faster than all but the highest performance cars, so there’s no need for the long straight sections that passing zones normally appear in. If everyone’s being rational, the rider safely passes and both parties travel on their merry way at their chosen speeds.

However, there’s also no real good reason in favor of crossing a DY. You can wait a few minutes to get to a passing zone, or you can turn off down a different road, or you can pull off and take a break and let Gramps get on down the road a ways. Everyone’s just trying to get where they’re going (except for psychotics like the driver in this story), and a couple of minutes won’t kill you.

TheRealBicycleBuck > BigBlock440
10/20/2015 at 12:41

Keep in mind that my story was in response to a fellow whose aunt was involved in a similar crash where she turned left and a guy making an illegal pass hit her broadside.

My point speaks to the possible state of mind of the rider and why he would make the decision to pass. In my case, I was in a passing zone, but I was angry, speeding, and trying to pass too many cars at once.

For the rider who was side-swiped, traffic was slow for no obvious reason. We have no idea what else was going on. Maybe the girlfriend was critiquing his riding style. Maybe he needed to take a dump. Who knows?

Young people such as he often make dumb mistakes like speeding, passing in a no passing zone, passing too many cars at once, etc.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE DRIVER OF THE CAR!!!!!

It just speaks to possible factors influencing the rider’s state of mind. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. I was fortunate that I never crashed.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 12:43

You saw the line of cars. That was your warning. Youcouldnt see through the line so you made an assumption and were wrong. This rider saw two individuals with space. Not an assumption, what was verified.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Master Cylinder
10/20/2015 at 12:48

“There’s really no rational reason for a motorcyclist not to cross on a DY if there is visibility and space. The average motorcycle can accelerate MUCH faster than all but the highest performance cars, so there’s no need for the long straight sections that passing zones normally appear in. If everyone’s being rational, the rider safely passes and both parties travel on their merry way at their chosen speeds.”

Agreed, with one caveat. The rider must know the road really well in order to make that determination. You’ll notice that he chose to pass two cars on a short downhill. There was no telling what was coming the other direction. Even if the old fellow hadn’t swerved, the rider would have been on his way up the next hill before moving back into his proper lane.

“However, there’s also no real good reason in favor of crossing a DY. You can wait a few minutes to get to a passing zone, or you can turn off down a different road, or you can pull off and take a break and let Gramps get on down the road a ways. Everyone’s just trying to get where they’re going (except for psychotics like the driver in this story), and a couple of minutes won’t kill you.”

A thousand stars for being older and wiser.

BigBlock440 > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 12:50

I wasn’t commenting on your story, and I get your point. I should have made that more clear. I was saying that this:

isn’t as relevant to the current story as it was to the other two. The other two stories had many more vehicles to pass and couldn’t see the lead vehicle, but this guy was close enough to the front of the line to know both were there.

450X_FTW > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 12:52

I’ve got my cycle endorsement too, been riding dirt for 20 years and pavement for 1 year. I know what it’s like going from a 250 to a 450 cc dirt bike and how one needs to be ready for that much power. Same can be said for a person going from a learner course bike to an R1

BigBlock440 > Sam
10/20/2015 at 12:54

Or foolishly expect another vehicle to remain in their lane when they have no reason to leave it?

When you pass somebody on a 2-lane road, the danger is oncoming traffic, nobody would expect it to be the guy you’re passing.

TheRealBicycleBuck > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/20/2015 at 12:58

He saw the double yellow. He saw the hill ahead. Those were his warnings.

It appears that you are here to justify the rider’s actions. Whether it was “safe” or not, he passed on the double-yellow. In the state of Texas, that is illegal. Simple as that. He deserves a ticket. He didn’t deserve to be punted into the ditch.

When I made the decision to pass, I thought it was justifiable too. I was in a passing zone and the traffic was moving much slower than the speed limit. Everything that I could see told me it was safe.

I was wrong.

Again, it doesn’t justify what happened to him and his girlfriend. The old fellow deserves what is coming.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 13:01

For the vast majority of riders, the danger is not from themselves, it’s from inattentive drivers. For that reason alone, I’ve agreed with my wife to not ride on road until my kids are much, much older. But I do hope to be that retired guy that takes long motorcycle trips on his dual sport.

TheRealBicycleBuck > 450X_FTW
10/20/2015 at 13:03

Absolutely true. Everyone should start small and work their way up. I started on a 125 dirt bike and worked my way up to a 650 turbo street bike.

It helped with my skills, but didn’t keep me from making a stupid decision.

TheRealBicycleBuck > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/20/2015 at 13:06

I’m right there with you. Motorcycling wasn’t the only thing I gave up when my wife got pregnant with our first child.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 13:15

Worth it.

TheRealBicycleBuck > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/20/2015 at 13:50

Absolutely.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TheRealBicycleBuck
10/20/2015 at 14:08

You’re ocmparing your actions to his and your result to his, but that is false. You got punished for your mistake by your misjudgement. This fellow got punished for breaking a law by someone who was not a cop and nearly died for it. I am NOT defending passing on a double yellow or passing multiple vehicles at once. I said so in my original comment. My point was that his judgement of “I can safely pass these cars” was actually correct and he had the onformation in front of him to tell him so. He would;ve cleared both cars safely, despite it being illegal, had he not been hit. You however, were NOT going to clear those cars safely. Your judgement was incorrect and you almost crashed directly because of it in an instant-karma sort of way.

While the biker did an illegal move, I stand by the defense of the rider in that he did not deserve to be run over and this is not like squids on sport bikes doing stupid moves based on bad judgement on a bike they can’t handle. Nor did this motorcyclist antagonize them first.

TheRealBicycleBuck > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
10/20/2015 at 15:05

Let’s make a couple of things absolutely clear so we can focus on other points:

Everyone here agrees that what the car driver did was deplorable and he should be punished for that. We can put that to rest.

You and I agree that what the rider did was illegal. There are some in the other thread who still believe that what the rider did was legal. They are wrong.

Here’s where we disagree. I say that the Eric Sanders, the rider in the video, didn’t have enough information to determine that he could safely pass the cars - whether the old fellow, William Crum, swerved or not. Let’s assume that the old fellow didn’t swerve. Sanders still passed in a no-passing zone. While you may assume it was done safely, I can tell you that it wasn’t done safely since he had no idea what was coming over the hill.

Here’s where it all went down:

Kinja'd!!!

Click this link to see in street view:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.47995…

Take a close look at the map and you can see why it is a no-passing zone. Sanders is eastbound. He completes a curve and passes a driveway on the left. After the crash site, there is another driveway on the left and a hill masking a road on the right. This is a stupid place to pass, even if your bike is full of wondersauce and can rip the feathers off of chickens as it whips by.

Sanders would have been fortunate that nothing bad happened to him if the idiot in the car hadn’t swerved. If you watch the video again, note that the crash happened at 1:48 and at 1:58 a truck comes into view over the hill. I’m sure that he’s made lots of stupid moves over the years and gotten off scott free as he probably would have in this situation if not for Mr. Crum.

And how does this relate to me? I was young and stupid when I made a similar mistake. I made a decision on imperfect information because I didn’t have enough experience to recognize what was happening. I was extremely fortunate that nothing bad happened to me then and all the other times I made dumb decisions.

Getting back to Sanders - he should have known better. He has three teenagers at home and is now facing huge hospital bills and an extended period off work. It makes me sad to see how a moment in time can really screw up peoples lives. Now he is trying to find help .

brianbrannon > Sam
10/22/2015 at 14:14

Passing slow moving traffic = trying to kill someone with a car in your world?